Endurance Ministries
Saturday, June 23, 2018
Enduring to the end!
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Q #41 Since the "Day of the Lord" is a key part/aspect of eschatological studies, We interrupt our FAQs for just a moment to address a current cultural affair.
WHEN will the earth dwellers discern we are moving into the closing days of the end just prior to the initial appearing of Jesus Christ? WHEN will the Church in Jesus Christ discern many “Christian” end-time scenarios are filled with half-truths leading to eschatological harm’s way? The 2012 DA14 asteroid was only discovered last year. We know so little. We didn’t even see the 2/15/13 mini asteroid coming. We know so little. WHEN will we humble ourselves and look to God and His Word for precious help for today and bright hope for tomorrow? Read His Word dear seeker. Go to the many sites listed in these FAQ pages for divine Counsel second to none. His Truths will transform you IF you let them. Because we sincerely CARE, Endurance Ministries’ Field Director
http://e-zekiel.tv/System/Media/play.asp?id=30216&key=8wzvf57rg9fmnnil4cn4 Q #47 How did Irvin Baxter respond to your letter? Thanks for returning to our FAQs. We hope these responses will bring blessing. One initial comment as we begin our 3rd page of answers to FAQs: In light of His eternal, most insightful pertinent Truths, let's press on in ready expectancy Q #41 Since the "Day of the Lord" is a key part/aspect of eschatological studies, Yes. The final “Day of the Lord” is a period of time which takes place after certain
end-time events and prior to entering into the eternal state. Presenting the specific details in a more formal manner, it would look like this:
Because:
P1 The Day of Christ / Day of the Lord does not begin until after the apostasy
and the revealing of the man of sin/lawlessness take place (II Thes. 2); P2 The eschatological Day of the Lord does not begin until after the heavenly
wonders and earthly signs take place (Joel 2:30, 31; Acts 2:19, 20); P3 The Day of the Lord begins suddenly whereby the world, while saying
“peace and safety,” is shocked by sudden destruction ALTHOUGH, due to preparedness on the part of Bible believers, this day does NOT overtake them – believers are present during the first part of the Day of the Lord but don’t incur the wrath of God as a result of the Final Trumpet Rapture Gathering (I Thes. 5:1-11; I Cor. 15:51, 52; Rev. 11:15-18 & 14:14-16); P4 The heavenly signs of Matthew 24:29 take place immediately after the
tribulation of Matthew 24:9-22; And because (we believe):
P5 The same earthly and heavenly signs of Joel 2/Acts 2 are also highlighted/
addressed in Matthew 24:29 and Revelation 6:12, 13; P6 The second part of the sixth seal (Rev. 6:14-17) is the same event (only
described somewhat differently) as Matthew 24:30 … THEREFORE we offer the following conclusions:
C1 The eschatological Day of the Lord begins with Christ’s initial appearing
in heaven (Matthew 24:30; Revelation 6:14-17); C2 The Day of the Lord includes the Trumpets & Bowls of Revelation, the
millennial reign of Christ and the Great White Throne Judgment at the end of the millennium just after satan is forever cast into the lake of fire – and what a glorious day that will be!! (Revelation 20:7-15); C3 The Day of the Lord concludes with the melting of/passing away of the
heavens and earth followed by the installation of the new heavens and earth (II Peter 3:10-13; Revelation 21:1). Charting this definition of the Day of Christ / Day of the Lord would look
something like this: Please look over additional details in our edification resource titled The Final Trumpet Rapture Gathering: An Introduction. Q #42 Assuming what you present is true, "What should we be doing today?" Click here for our PDF document answering this important practical question.Q #43 How much of an income do you make from this ministry?
You'd be surprised. All of our financial resources go toward sheperding God's flock in Jesus Christ AND toward encouraging goats to become His sheep. We have no
salaried positions. In fact, since you asked, let me demonstate our giving spirit,
by our Lord's mercy and grace, through making available one publication we've been
selling since 2008. It's titled Now The Rapture? Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth.
It's part one in an important series. It's important due to additional cultural affairs/
current matters which have surfaced recently. Click here for the 14-page document. Q #44 Why does all this even matter?
It matters because Truth Matters! especially when the truths being considered
are of eternal significance. Please view our future projection paper in light of important cultural consequences currently unfolding. (Booklet #2) Q #45 I've been told, "It [The FTRG chronology] is all screwed up!" Can you Yes, but first, tell us, biblically speaking, exactly HOW is this view "screwed up" ?
We actually answer the justification (of the view) question throughout our web sites.
Our point: CHARGES can be made but let's be honest as to what, exactly, is the
problem! To date, we have NOT received explicitly biblical rebuttals to the position. Questions, yes; rebuttals, no. God's Word continues to be our measurement for faith and practice.
Q #46 Are there really biblical grounds for believing the rapture event is
explicitly stated in Matthew 24:31? Yes there are and we’d like to share some warrants at this time.
We believe the presumption – that Matthew 24 is only addressing Israel – is incorrect.
While the text does indeed address an event taking place in Israel – namely Jerusalem (vv. 15-20) – we remind the reading audience that this does not mean the passage is only describing Israel. The gathering together of His elect, as explicitly described in verse 31, is a global event. Allow us, please, to use a story to make our point …
Francis Crick: “Biologists must constantly keep in mind that what they see was not
designed, but rather evolved.” (See full quote in What Mad Pursuit; 1988 – pg. 138; 1990 edition)
This is a perfect example of closed mindedness to the extent of no longer listening to the
facts. I think we all discern the problem with Crick’s perspective. (By the way, he no longer holds to his quote above.) BUT …
With all due respect, is it possible we do the same when we dogmatically hold certain
doctrines that are not sufficiently evidenced?
Let me cite a recent example:
While in dialogue with a Sister in Christ, I discerned the need to agree with her as to the
teaching of II Thes. 2:1 – this passage addresses “the coming of our Lord Jesus and our gathering together to Him.” “I totally affirm this passage!” I said.
I went on to say the same Greek word – επισυναγωγη (“gathering together”), only in
verb form: επισυναγω – is also used to describe the global gathering of God’s elect
in Matthew 24:31.
“Couldn’t this Matthew 24:31 passage also possibly be speaking of the final trumpet
rapture gathering of His Church?” I asked. “Absolutely not!” was her response.
When I appealed to Francis Crick’s example (of dogmatism without sufficient grounds)
as a possible analogy – to her rejection of this possibility (that the two passages above actually do address the same event) – my friend became offended. “But you can’t say dogmatically that these two passages are addressing the same event.”
I agreed with her.
Sharon then gave me a look communicating confusion … that she did not understand
my response. I went on to say that we don’t offer this Bible-affirming position as dogma. Yes, we offer
it as a “proposal” to be prayerfully and exegetically considered but never as the Truth concerning end times (though we believe this position does faithfully outline explicit
biblical Truth). (See responses dealing with this concern in the work, The Final
Trumpet Rapture Gathering: An Introduction; pp. vi, vii; available through this link: “But Sharon, please don’t rule out possible alternatives just because they may run contrary
to popular majority. It really is God’s Word that is our authority for faith and practice.”
In light of this sound appeal, let me put these two NKJV passages side by side:
Matthew 24:31 II Thes. 2:1
And He will send His angels with Now, brethren, concerning the a great sound of a trumpet, and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ they will gather together and our gathering together [επισυναγω – lexicon form] [επισυναγωγη] His elect from the four winds, from to Him, we ask you … one end of heaven to the other. In conclusion, there are grounds – not all mentioned here – for accepting the appeal that
the gathering together of His elect (of Matthew 24:31) is the gathering together event of
II Thes. 2:1.
Will we follow Crick’s example and be closed-minded to viable alternatives or will we honor
Scripture and allow for all of the sound interpretive options to be fairly considered? Because
this is a crucial contemporary concern, we pray His people in Jesus Christ will be open to
Q #47 How did Irvin Baxter respond to your letter?
Q #48 What's your real motive in all this "ministry" effort? (NB: The field director
of Endurance Ministries is the one asking this question in light of some false charges concerning “why” we do what we do.) As stated in our many resources, we seek the honor and glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
To obey Him is to love Him. We also care deeply for the protection of His sheep. Given His Counsel clearly states great deception will unfold during the days prior to His Son’s glorious return – even to the extent of “falling away from the faith” – we sincerely seek to provide shepherding appeals ... appeals in light of what our Shepherd has communicated in His Word – whereby God’s people endure as He has so outlined. This, truly, is that which is driving our efforts. We CARE passionately for God’s Family in Christ Jesus our Lord. sincere people in Christ Jesus Your Son seek Your Counsel in Your holy and precious Word. In Jesus Christ's sweet Name we pray. Amen." Q #49 We ask a lot of questions of you but do you have any for us?
We do. Please note our ultimate goal: to edify His people through
sound doctrine appeal (II Tim. 4:1,2) unto our Lord’s glory and praise. Here are some FAIR Questions (or is it wrong for us to “question” things
that may not be of sound doctrine because if we do so we are sowing discord/causing division among the brethren? Hmmmmm Biblical balance is BIG!): We believe this: IF the Preterists are incorrect in their view (that much
of the “end-time” material in Scripture has already been fulfilled during the period of the early church), then they are actually encouraging God’s people in Jesus Christ to adopt a posture of ill-preparedness, a perspective
which our Lord Jesus strongly counseled against. Please understand, even their general perspective is not without problematic inconsistencies. By way of example, we refer you to page 160 of The Apocalypse
Code.
In the concluding paragraphs of this chapter (chapter #5 – Historical Principle),
the author condemns those who believe the “last days” need to be seen in light of God’s perspective given our Lord has not yet returned. He uses condemning words when he employs these kinds of appeals: “Lest we be seduced …” “… it is contrary to all propriety …” “it is a reprehensible abuse of language …” etc. These are all tied to his appeal that we cannot consider the possibility of there being two thousand years between the writing of the book of Revelation and its actual fulfillment. (We disagree in that our Lord has not yet come and, as a
result, we are indeed in the last days just prior to our Lord’s glorious appearing.) But here’s the contradiction: After saying we cannot apply the book of Revelation to our day, the author then goes on to close this very same chapter – in the very next paragraph – by saying there are aspects of Revelation which are yet future. WOW! Question: Are we discerning prophetic voices in light of God-given common
sense and the whole counsel of His Word? Question: Do we understand the absolute need to be in His Word regularly
whereby we can properly “watch” through His lens? Question: In light of clear biblical data concerning our day, are we protecting
ourselves from the many deceptions God said would indeed flourish before His Son’s glorious return? We need to open our eyes!
Another source’s opening introductory words prove equally insightful:
“The Scriptures present six raptures. Four have already taken place.
Two are still to come.” (pg. 11; Maranatha Our Lord, Come!) The author then lists the four which have already taken place and the
two which he believes are yet future (I only quote the two which he says are yet future.): 1. “the coming of Christ to take His bride, the church … the
church’s Rapture” and, 2. “The other future rapture will occur when the two witnesses
of the future Tribulation period ascend to heaven after God has resurrected them from death (Rev. 11:3, 11-12).” Oops! He missed (at least!) one: the global gathering of the elect in
Matthew 24:31!! (The author quoted immediately above does not believe Mt. 24:31 is addressing the rapture of the church.) (Note: IF the author attributes the rapture of the two witnesses as the event of Matthew 24:31, on what grounds does he use this non-literal interpre- tation to do so?) Question: If the author does not write accurately when he makes
factual statements (e.g., “The Scriptures present six raptures.”), should we automatically - without critical thought as to what the BIble actually teaches - believe him when he makes inferential appeals which (he believes) support the Pre-Trib rapture?
(Please note our comments RE: the Greek word for “gathering together”
[II Thes. 2:1 – a rapture text] ; “gather together” [Matthew 24:31].) Question: If the author’s warrants for “What Paul Could Not Have Meant”
(namely, the “last trumpet” of I Cor. 15 is emphatically NOT the final [seventh] trumpet of Revelation 11; pp. 259-268) are not sound, are you willing to consider a very Bible honoring end-time position called the “Final Trumpet Rapture Gathering” as defined and proposed on this site? In closing …
Question: Are you truly one who affirms the authority voice which
defines the Christian Worldview: The BIBLE is our authority for faith and practice? If so, PLEASE allow for end-time appeals which are explicitly stated in
His Word. Remember, one aspect of the JOY of the Lord is tied to His precious revelation to us – Nehemiah 8:1-12 … sweet! Q #50 Don't you occasionally write in a dogmatic tone? (You really do.)
Thank you for asking because we have not looked at it in that light before
but we do see how one could possibly come to that conclusion. As a result, a word of clarification is in order. Here’s our answer … how we have, to date, approached the defining
of the Final Trumpet Rapture Gathering position: We have been most clear that we are offering a Bible-honoring
proposal for prayerful and exegetical consideration. We’ve made this and other similar statements numbering almost 100 times in our many ministry resources – web, radio, presentations and written materials. At times when we are in the mode of defining the position, YES, we speak in a matter of fact manner. This should not be misconstrued to mean we are intending to present dogma but simply that we are stating the tenets of the position. There is a huge difference between the two presentations. The following represents a good sample as to our overall approach.
We hope this will bring helpful clarity whereby we are not further misunderstood. In order to offer a very biblical end-time position to the Christian
community for its consideration, here are some of the major highlights of the Final Trumpet Rapture Gathering position: 1. It is PreMillennial – Upon Jesus Christ’s return to the earth, He
will reign for 1,000 years before the final judgment which will
then issue in the eternal state. 2. While PreMillennial, the position holds a very different view
of Daniel’s 70th Week than most PreMillennialists. 3. There is a three-part expression of the Return of Jesus Christ:
a. Jesus Christ’s initial appearing (Mt. 24:30; Rev. 6:14-17)
b. Jesus Christ’s gathering up of His Church (Mt. 24:31; Jn. 14;
I Cor. 15:51,52; I Thes. 4:13-18; Rev. 11:15-19 & 14:14-16)
c. Jesus Christ’s return to the earth (Mt. 25:31; Rev. 19)
4. The Church will go through the tribulation as defined by Mt. 24:9-22.
5. The Church will not incur the wrath of God as it is Raptured prior to
the Bowls of Wrath.
6. The position’s name reflects the explicitly biblical nature of the view.
(We sincerely believe this position actually has the least amount of interpretive baggage of the end-time positions offered today.) 7. Divine Truth is affirmed while at the same time a lower degree of
certainty is also claimed due to the mandatory steps required when
pulling together a biblical theology on eschatology. We confess
interpretive decisions have been made – as is the case in every
eschatological position.
The 1 – 7 list above could be (wrongfully) interpreted as evidence of a
dogmatic posture concerning the tenets outlined. But the list is not meant to be dogmatic. It is simply stating, as a matter of fact, the details of / the tenets of the position. We confess the line may appear blurry at times as a result of our purpose(s) in writing. We hope for our Family in Christ’s kind and gracious responses – while at the same time bringing ones which critically evaluate the FTRG position in light of clear, biblical data – as we continue expressing our various definitions and concerns. Q #51 Are you suggesting today’s popular definition of Daniel’s 70th Week is in error?
Yes, the most recognized and accepted Pre-Millennial construct of Daniel’s 70th
Week may be wrong. Here’s one of many reasons why this is indeed (factually)
the case: Click here (Please note: This is a further clarification of our answer
at FAQ #38 [#3].)
Q #52 Why do you employ an Allegorical hermeneutic?
Since this claim is about the most unevidenced one we have heard to date, we feel
a response is in order. Is this the best some can do to seek to undermine our credible
appeal: “What does the biblical text actually teach?” Wrongfully attacking someone's
integrity (credibility) is not what our Lord Jesus has called His people to be doing.
Since this accusation has indeed been made, let me ask those who are bringing this
charge a fair question: Please identify how we even begin to appear to be bringing an
allegorical hermeneutic? If judgments are made, they need to be evidenced. So, we
respectfully ask: On what grounds is this concern made? Please! Write to us and
evidence your charge. If you cannot present grounds in support of your claim, it
should be dropped. If this charge continues, we will continue to reject it as false
judgment and let the facts speak for themselves.
Throughout our ministry materials we model a strong commitment to the actual
data of Scripture. We are as far from allegorical as one can get. (This approach
still affirms the various genres found within the Word of God.) If you have any doubts about this, please read over our web sites. This action will absolutely
clarify the perspective from which we’re coming. You can also see evidence of a what-does-the-biblical-text-actually-teach commitment in our book titled,
The Final Trumpet Rapture Gathering: An Introduction.
Q #53 You say there aren't any passages teaching the PRE-Trib Rapture but
my Bible-believing pastor teaches to the contrary. Who's right [Who's TRUTHFUL on this matter]? What does the WORD teach? In fact, as we've sought to speak the Truth in love over the past couple decades, we have been quite surprised in this regard: The degree
to which some members of the Christian community are unwilling to present and/or
listen to explicit biblical Truth. (The ad below was submitted as a sincere offer but ...)
___
NOTE: Due to some misrepresentation of 1) the $1,000 offer (below) and,
(posted 2) our sincere intent behind this Bible- 1/8/15) affirming challenge, the board of Endurance Ministries has asked us to discontinue offering the
reward (that is, the "carrot" of $1,000). That said, we officially CLOSE this offer as of January 9, 2015 BUT
please note the following ... 1. Not ONE person contacted us attempting to take us up on our challenge
though thousands were exposed to the offer) ; 2. Our concern remains: There is not one explicit Bible passage teaching
the Pre-Tribulational Rapture of the Church ; and, 3. The implicit warrants for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture view are weak at best.
There are other explicitly biblical end-time positions worthy of your prayerful,
Berean-like consideration. ___
We're called to be FAT - Faithful (to His Word), Available (to study His Word) God help us do (and be) what we claim to be: People of the Book! Please visit www.truthfoundations.com if you haven't already done so. May His Word be our actual authority for faith and practice ... unto His glory An Open Letter to our Family in Christ who firmly believe in the Q #54 Does the "Day of the Lord" actually start with the sixth seal?
In response, in light of explicit biblical data, we believe the Day of the Lord is
defined as such. Note: The heavenly Elders of Revelation say, at the blowing of the Final Trumpet, “We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was and who is to come, because You have taken Your great power and reigned. The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, and those who fear Your name, small and great, and should destroy those who destroy the earth.” (Revelation 11:17, 18; NKJV) See details at this link about the concern tied to the verb, “has come.” In light of the above, we believe the period of the bowls of the wrath of God (which the Church does not experience) begins after the Final Trumpet (Rapture Gathering). In this setting, the faithful people of God in Christ Jesus do not experience God’s wrath as poured out during the Bowls of Wrath. The Church will not incur the hour of trial (Revelation 3:10) due to its being taken up prior to the pouring out of the Bowls of Wrath. Again, we are aware of the various ways “the hour of trial” is interpreted. In accurate application of the possible meanings of this phrase, we conclude more tentatively and once again go on to offer The Final Trumpet Rapture Gathering as a biblically supported end-time view which affirms the many application appeals throughout eschatological data found in the Bible. This includes endurance, preparedness/readiness (in light of the signs), obedience, holiness (and separation from the world), etc. This will eventually include God’s remaining people in Christ (who survive the time of persecution against God’s people – see our chronological proposal here) saying “NO” when the mark of the beast is implemented on a global scale. As interpretive issues go, yes, there are a variety of viable ways to understand certain dynamics relating to this topic of just when the wrath of God begins. The position pro- posed by Endurance Ministries is one of those viable ways (that these chronological details can unfold in light of the explicit Word of God). Let’s be dogmatic (seen in a positive sense) when we have grounds to be dogmatic. Let’s be more tentative when there exists multiple competing hypotheses which are viable in light of the full Counsel of the Word of God. Does this make Scripture relative? No. It does profess honestly when multiple ways of looking at a passage do indeed exist. Please see our book and our other materials which affirm this end-time proposal. Sincerely, as we’ve stated time and time again, there is not ONE biblical denial of the Final Trumpet Rapture Gathering when it is considered in light of the full Counsel of the holy Word of God. We praise God He offers His special Creation, made in His precious image, means by which to safely navigate the troubles waters ahead. Q #55 Could you please place your major handouts at one location so I know what
you make available without having to surf your many sites? By God’s grace, we do offer many very insightful handouts. The majority of our on-line posts are found on 11" X 17" sheets so some are more difficult to copy and print.
If you'd care to have our many handouts sent to you in 8.5 x 11 hard copy format – and we do allow you to copy the handouts as long as the material is fully copied as we send it - please snail-mail us at: Endurance Ministries P.O. Box 92098 Portland, OR 97292 and ask for our "Church Ministry" supplies. Please enclose $10 to help cover our mailing costs and enclosed information. The material alone is valued at more than $20 so please see this as yet another ministry from us to you,
Q #56 Just What is “The Taking Away of the Regular Sacrifice”?
Please visit this link.
Q #57 Are some churches really as compromised as you seem to suggest?
You'd be surprised. Please visit Because His Truths Matter
Q #58 Why do you persist in questioning the Pre-Trib Rapture position?
You know, you're right: Enough said on this topic but please understand we bring
significant live presentations on this concern, imparting information which is NOT addressed on our web sites - e.g., II Thes. 2 et al. Contact us for more information at EMFieldDirector@gmail.com . Q #59 Are the end-time "signs" really unfolding today?
YES ... EVERYWHERE. In light of this, our LORD Counsels us to be watching. (see
Luke 21:28-36) Are YOU (watching)? Many have discerned our day. For example, visit this link to view Ray Comfort's Noah movie. Prety cool stuff! Q #60 Is the Final Trumpet Rapture Gathering a sound end-time position?
Absolutely! As stated above, to date we have received no biblical rebuttals on this
explicitly biblical position. In fact, we believe it is the most biblically evidenced end-
time position today. Click here to review the position's summary chart.
Care to conduct a Christ-honoring seminar on this matter where four Premillennial
positions can be considered in one setting during a one-day instructional gathering?
We need (1) Pre-Trib
(1) PreWrath &
(1) Post-Trib (therefore, three)
advocates who are willing to engage in this edifying exchange. Please email our
field director at email@endmin.org for more information about putting together
such a debate. (The fourth Premillennial position would be the Final Trumpet Rapture
Gathering.)
For contemporary Bible response to present cultural concerns, please visit
www.currentmatters.org - see our two blog sections for helpful insight.
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